Getting Her # but not calling it

MY THOUGHTS ON THIS BLOG ONE YEAR LATER… I distinctly remember this time in my life, and this post was me being my authentic self at that time based on the experiences that my single girlfriends & I were having, but it is remarkable how much I feel like a completely different person exactly one year later… so much so that this was almost painful to read. For the sake of the length of this, I have pared down my original post, which is really absurd b/c it is still so flipping long!   Side note & something I found interesting after the fact… the results from my Dating Survey (which I am thinking of opening up again so haven’t posted here yet) lined up for the most part with what I was feeling… the majority of women prefer a phone call, then a text & least preferable is FB and they also would hope to hear from the guy within 1-3 days…
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Getting her (my) number, but not calling it… that could be the theme of my dating world in the past year plus & that of many of my girlfriends as well.

…I am really in awe of how many times I have really hit it off with someone (or at least so I thought) – or that a girlfriend of mine has (I am seeing it & so is the rest of the world – it’s not in her mind) – and a guy asks for our #, may even talk about meeting up/wanting to take us out sometime, etc., and then either we never hear from him at all or, we get (which I will expand upon, but most of us think is even worse) a text or a Facebook friend request some time later with possibly some random banter but nada about ever actually meeting up….  & ultimately, things never graduate beyond texting or Facebook.  Unless your age ends in “-teen,” I am sorry, but to this latter behavior (staying in touch via e-only methods), I have to say (& many of my girlfriends agree) LA-AAAAAME.
…We come to understand some of your real intentions – unfortunately sometimes after wasting too much time talking to you – when you try to get us to continue the night way past reasonable hours “just us,” & then when we say that we have to go home, we are not dumb enough to have any expectation that you’ll be in touch nor do we want you to.  However, it’s the seemingly really decent good guys that we talk to (that do not seem wasted out of their minds) when we’re out, feel like we have a real & mutual connection with and who are not trying to take us home with them, that we are a little bit in awe of.
If at the end of the night, you are not interested-interested & would like to stay friends with her, there’s nothing wrong with that, say something that makes it clear that your intention is to stay friends & more importantly, do not get her #. …Now, if you DO get her # and you really ARE interested and would like to see this girl again, then God Bless America, please pay attention…  a text or two soon after your first meeting is a-okay (like that night, the next day) saying “hey great meeting you, will call you to plan something” (listen, this kind of verbage is not my forte, so I am just throwing random stuff out here! :-P)  Then, within the next day or two (this is not a hard & fast #, but do not let a week go by), CALL HER. If I could have underlined that for even more emphasis, I would have!   Side note – the only time a FB contact is okay in my book is if there wasn’t a chance for us to exchange info whenever we met; if you have my # and are still trying to ask me out via FB or just add me as an FB friend to scope me out, that just doesn’t fly for me.  Now calling her does not mean you have to have an at-length conversation (since I have heard plenty of people – guys and girls alike – tell me “they do not have time for the phone & texting is more convenient”); it can be a simple “hey, I am on my way out to… or I just got back from & am in a rush… but I was wondering if you can get together for dinner/drinks on….”
… Doing the above = huge bonus points from at least 95% of the females that I know.  You immediately put yourself in a whole other category with a simple phone call (regardless of whether a relationship develops or not).
Now ladies, here’s some advice for you as well… what this past year of the call-that-never-happens taught me, is not to spend too much time talking to any one guy in any given night.  You might never hear from this guy again, & there could have been other guys who were possibly interested in you, but they got the loud & clear “she’s with THAT guy” message so they naturally did not bother.  Guys are very observant of & sensitive to these things.  Also, remember, guys are constantly considering their options, so why is that as girls, we feel so committed or obligated b/c someone started talking to us or even when we first start dating someone…?
I know some guys & girls out there are thinking “wow, SmileMoon, thank you for making this process even more difficult,” & to that, I’d like to say if making or taking a phone call is too much effort for you, then you should seriously consider how serious you actually are about meeting someone b/c e-communication can only get you so far b/c one day, you will need to actually talk to the person.  & for me personally, the “no time” or “more convenient” excuse simply doesn’t fly in my book. I am someone who makes a whole lot of effort & then some towards the people I care about in my life, so I do not befriend or date people who are such minimalists in their efforts.
Lastly, when it comes to my blog in general, these are all simply insights into my dating experiences & those of friends (including many of my guy friends) and yes, I am making some recommendations based on them.  However, I am not delusional enough to think that anything I am saying here is going to change how people date.
Write soon,

ORIGINAL COMMENT THREAD – I wasn’t sure how to post this because there were so many and everyone – including yours truly had a lot to say – so I had to delete some comments.  If you just want to scroll through quickly, I highligted some interesting advice/insight from people as well as some of the nastiness that went down primarily from male posters (& people say that women are the bitter & jaded ones…?).
Anonymous said… Hey Smilemoon, I completely agree with your blog about guys calling/not girls. It seems that guys find it okay to call a girl a week or two after they get her number. Obviously its a huge sign to us girls that your just not that into us…or so I thought. I actually had an incident recently where a guys got my number and called me a couple of days later.. by this point i was completely uninterested because he just did not put in the effort to show that he was interested. Well lets just say that I told him the exact reason that I didnt want him to pursue me….and he THANKED me for it. He thought that in one way or another he would be too aggressive for calling the next day or the day after…. Not at all guys!!!! He said that he was really interested in me but the reason why he didnt call was because of “Man Rule” where you dont call until….well…..a couple days too late.
So Smilemoon I definitely agree with your message, from a frustrated girl’s standpoint the worst that can happen for a guy that shows that he is interested is getting voicemail…but you might also be one step closer to finding Ms. Right 🙂   Don’t let your man rules overrule the way you feel about a girl… the theme to all of this? Try to be a little more transparant. Say what you mean and do what you say you will…easy enough right?
-Perception of the Majority of Women in Chicago
Anonymous said… hey anonymous, who cares if he called a day or two too late in “your book.” he called you! what if he was really busy with work or family or meeting other girls? (he’s allowed to talk to other girls btw). you may have missed out on a great guy. its difficult to meet people as it is. you’re just making it harder for yourself.   frankly i’m glad you blew him off. if that guy was my friend and he told me about what happened, i would tell him to be thankful that he didnt have to waste his time with a high maintenance (and clearly drama-filled) girl. and then i would ask him how drunk or high he was when he got your number
PDiddy said… Do you ladies have a clue? 90% of guys only call girls they are attracted to.  If they do not call back, its because they woke realized they are not attracted to you and decided to never call. If they continue to talk to you whenever you see them maybe they are a nice guy, maybe they like small talk, maybe he just wants to be friends and calling makes him uncomfortable. There are a million+1 reasons…  The point being when a guy calls fast, predictably and regularly; it is because he is immensely attracted.
That is why smart girls that are married – knew how to tease their men when they initially met. But kept him going with out going there. If he stays, you got past the attraction trap and now have a chance to build a relationship. If he ditched and called you a tease odds are he is player. (Some girls depending on skill-set will use the alternative approach of giving it up but putting the guy in a situation where there is no way, he’d walk away from that… ushy-gushy stuff)
And the same goes for keeping a guy. Keep him attracted almost to the point of fixation till you have a meaningful emotional bond.  This is intro 101 btw. Extended mating duration in order to guarantee impregnation is the basis of relationships and marriage. Keep that guys attention with attraction and you’ll win everytime.
(And in modern society there are many kinds of attraction… good cooking, you’re both Steelers fans, you both have some weird obsession with pancakes… I dunno whatever… ) 
Anonymous said… I guess it comes down to how you two met? If you met at a bar where both of you had been drinking, maybe he realized he had made a mistake after he sobered up or didnt even remember getting your number? I have also seen scenarios where the girl doesnt remember giving out her number due to alcohol. It could go either way.
Now if the guy was sober, then thats a different story. Maybe he WAS interested, until he asked around and did a little investigation to find out some skeletons in your closet, who knows?   Bottom line is..if he gets your number and doesnt call, dont take it to heart, its all a part of the process.
Anonymous said…
SmileMoon, very interesting post, but I believe highly flawed. Not in a bad way, but you obviously have thought about the process of dating, well specifically “south-asian dating” to a high degree, but have a sort of one sided view. It’s sometimes not easy for us guys, especially after meeting a cute girl in a bar scene to simply pick up the phone and make a phone call. Hey it’s maybe something you really want, but let’s not play double standard. If we are in a modern world … then why cannot a girl who is interested pick up the phone and call the guy?? You may think it’s too forward, etc… but in all honesty, I think its being a little biased on the female side saying, “oh yes, the MAN has to call the girl”
With your interesting idiosyncrasies, which I personally believe are eccentric, but at the same time add a very positive character to your side, it should not be out of character to do out of normal, or should I say, out of the social norm, things like calling the “guy”
And just another addition, with the popularity of SMS and facebook, a modern method of flirting these days include facebook messages and playful text messages. If, I am understanding what your above blog is saying, that a phone call is a necessary stepping point to later then start with SMS or facebook banter. Well then missy, you will continue to find yourself with no man by your side.
If the few readers who read my comment agree or have opinions, please post a @ reply. I’d be interested to see what the so-to-speak, “online” world thinks.
Smile moon said…
i personally have no problem with the “he wasn’t that into me” & chose not to call scenario; my only issue was that if he was just laying on the “he IS really into me” super thick so he could possibly get some, it’s just unfortunate that guys who are well past their undergrad years are still out for just one thing.
anon4, i completely understand that it’s not easy to make that call, but if you are interested, and you text and we respond, then at that point, i hope that most guys would feel like they are getting the “green light” and that they would then feel comfie calling (again, like i said – there is just something completely different about being asked out to dinner via text via on the phone for most of us girls, but no, that does mean that if someone asks me out via an e-method that i will not go out with them or would judge them poorly; this is just my preference).
as for the modern world, yes, a girl could ask a guy out, pursue him, pay for the first date, and do all of that, but i think it would shift the dating-relationship balance in such a negative way that i think more than anyone, the guys would be more unpleasantly thrown than anyone. Practically every guy i know has told me, that he HAS to be the one doing the chasing or it just doesn’t work. & to me, that makes sense & it’s how it’s played out in almost every successful relationship i know.
i cannot help but reiterate the “why” behind that “Facebook rule”… i do not want to connect to the guy i’m interested in the same way i’m “connected” to the random guy who sat behind me in homeroom in the 7th grade & added me as his friend on FB. i want “new potential guy” to have to ask me questions about his life, friends, travels, etc. & that i have to do the same.
lastly, for the person who mentioned “skeletons in someone’s closet,” all i can say is that if i’m interested in a guy, i do not go asking for my whole group’s opinions or the scoop on said guy. i want to go into the getting-to-know-someone process with a blank slate & not the opinions or supposed “scoop” (that is often so wildly skewed) on an individual. as for real “skeletons,” everyone has a past, no one is perfect & people do change/evolve, but yet we are desi & we are forever putting stigmas on people for everything & hold other people to a standard that we do not even hold for ourselves.
Anonymous said…
I agree with the latest anonymous post, your initial blog was extremely one-sided. As for name calling, it is not necessary. If you are going to call guys LAME and a bunch of 7th graders, your obviously going to piss someone off.
Vijay Mehta M.D. said…
I am the least experienced guy – I have dated least number of times than anyone of you.  When it comes to courtship and marriage you should always keep in mind that you are playing this game with no rules no referees. So everyone behaves based on what he or she thinks is right or what they feel comfortable with.
Are you in dating mode or marriage mode? To me dating is like fast food conveniently available, many locations to serve you and you can be absolutely picky about where you go because if you do not like the one outfit the competition is not too far. If Taco Bell takes too long to serve you walk out and go to Taco Cabana! It is their job to meet our expectation – after all they are plenty to choose from. All of my comments are applicable if you are in marriage mode and seriously looking for the co parent of your future children.
Attraction is not a stable commodity. As a matter of fact in long term relationship the attraction may range from “I cannot live without you to I cannot stand you” with the person being the same. So if he is going to call you – you are better off that he calls when the attraction level is high rather than he calls you out of a deadline hanging on his head even if the attraction level at that point is not high.
One may even argue that the fact that after few days he did call and if he was able to convey his interest in you the message is more likely to be thought out message than one out of what girl expects out of me.
Only person who you control is you. So all of you basically need to address every issue with simple question – knowing what I know so far what can I do to improve the communication with the prospect I meet and do not let my emotions or expectation become so counter productive that I let a good one go? As it is evident from such discussion one gender is talking in Chinese and the other is interpreting in Telugu!
Discussion such as this is very helpful. While it is not meant to develop any specific consensus it does give everyone a glimpse as to how others feel in a given situation. What we can all agree is that everyone can have their own take on it. Therefore making any conclusion based on he called me a week later my be erroneous.
What is the major difference between those who are happily married versus those who are making serious attempts and not finding it? It is not the looks or education, the financial stability or curb appeal. It is ability to ignore the dislikes as annoyance rather than a deal breaker and build the likes into a common purpose rather than open another front.
Don’t escalate – if he was a good guy 5 days ago he is same guy five days later – the fact that he did not meet your early call back criteria is something to keep in the back of your mind but not to act on it.
Continued
PDiddy said…
VJ Uncle… I think everything you say is pretty much on point. But I feel like a lot of the unsuccessful ladies do not have the tool-kit to deal with the ‘douche-bag’ guys. Guys who are shopping, not compromising, lack maturity etc… I think identifying and cultivating the skills required to detect and disarm the ‘douche-bag’ is pretty important. Because 75% of the men they meet will be part of the ‘douche-bag’ group.
In my city (Chicago) – I see an endless collection of girls who understand every point made by you but do not know how to cultivate some mystery, magic and attraction.
Of the ladies I know who were able to successfully get married. Obviously those ladies and their partners, have thick-skin, common goals, communicate well and are willing to work hard putting something together. But these ladies also knew how to court a guy, keep him focused and occupied.
I think your story on how when you met your wife – she told you that she was an amazing cook is very pertinent. She knew it was important short-term as part of the attraction. But pretty-irrelevant in the longer term. Most of these girls I see are not doing this.
To my friends who are ladies. I strongly advocating man-handling the ‘douche-bag’ guys as an effective strategy to finding the right guy. Evaluate the guy materially – if he fits the bill – do not be scared to engage him and push him back smartly. I have seen hundreds of these horrible guys fall apart when a women can present the right combination of mystery, magic and attraction.
(Basically women should have strategic advice. And detailed tatical directions that addresses their existing lifestyle situation.)
Vijay Mehta M.D. said…
My comments continued ….
Smilemoon, there is nothing wrong in receiving information that may be relevant – maybe he is married three times before. You don’t have to go out and seek the information but the way the gossip machine works it is possible that you get information. I get a lot of information about so many of you every day. But you are right, you need to keep your mind open and figure out for yourself.
Road to relationship is a bumpy road with lots of detours or U turns – it is the persistence and maturity of both sides that is the key to success. The problem lies with those who once they meet a prospect get in the romantic notion they can’t wait to validate their feeling by getting that message they are hoping for. I caution you against it. “I met an interesting guy last night” needs to remain just that. Even if he sends you a flirty message next morning to me does not mean much. If he is a con artist he is likely to do everything right.
Flirting is a wonderful thing. It gives you that adrenaline rush some thing to talk about (brag about) with your friends etc. But in the long and treacherous journey to marriage it should not be given too much importance.
I call you guys ‘youth’ (from where I stand everyone seems young!) but ‘mature youth.’ I implore you to learn to act mature. Mature people do not escalate. They do not make a quick and snap judgment. Specially anonymous (the first commenter) if all it takes to disqualify is the fact that the guy was 48 hours too late to call you – in my opinion you have a lot to learn. If I were advising the guy I would caution him. Because if you are so rigid in your criteria what other major problems would he face should he decide to marry you?
The relationship requires two imperfect people with diverse background to negotiate the long and hard road to a common purpose and ability to deal with each others imperfections without being defeated or bitter.
Good luck to all of you. I used to be jealous that I never got to enjoy the company of lots of females and experience the fun that goes with it, but now I am thankful that I did not have to meet all the expectations of the new and empowered Desi gals!!
Vijay Mehta M.D. said…
PDiddy,
The irony is that most of these ladies are far too smart to know how to spot and deal with a ‘douche-bag.’ The problem is not really the lack of know how. As a matter of fact most of these ladies can give a lecture or write a book on how to do it.
The problem is the sense of desperation that sets in. There are far more Desi gals looking for serious relationship than eligible Desi guys. This puts them in a disadvantageous position. There kicks in wishful thinking and higher expectation when they run into someone even semi decent. Once the guy sense desperation suddenly the girl loses her magic and mystery.
As a matter of fact if there was someway to put Desi men in a situation where for every girl there are two guys, suddenly the guys would understand what gals must go through.
I do give them individualized strategic advice. For the most part it boils down to helping her develop enough self-esteem to empower her to do what she may already know.
Anonymous said…
So, what is the key to this Magic, mystery and attraction? What are those qualities and traits?
Smile moon said…
vj uncle, you also know that i heart you to pieces, but your comments made it seem like desi girls have become so rigid/ empowered with seemingly out-of-this world expectations and that’s the reason we are single. in my personal book, i do not want to have extended text conversations – that is not the way i can get to know someone (friend or potential relationship) and if after after some texting back and forth, if the person cannot be so compelled to make the effort, it’s b/c he’s “just not that into me” and that is OKAY. i do not think that’s an out-of-this world expectation and if it is, that’s just sad.
as for p.diddy who keeps speaking of his married friends. i’m not sure if we roll in the same group or not, but regardless, in my expansive group of maybe 100 people, i know 2 married couples – one that got married several years ago (when i think the dynamics of dating were even different then & from what i heard about their story, it did not go down like how you are saying) and then one other couple that recently got married (& from what i know of their story, it, too, did not go down that way). as far as i know, these girls were not manipulative, strategic in their expression of “magic” or mystery or did anything blatant other than be themselves when it came to attraction. i’ve heard one of them say that she was just as the right time & place and happened to meet the right kind of guy. (if any marrieds would comment on this, i’m sure we’d all love to hear from you on this).
i do think you are completely right that our d-bag radar is whacked out & we end up wasting a lot of time talking to the wrong guys. as a guy who i imagine has a lot of guy friends, i think what you said about 75% of the guys being non-quality is a big deal. if that’s true, that leaves 25% of the decent guys for the rest of us. so sad…
Anonymous said…
FYI to all the Chicago ladies. All my friends here who have gotten married, engaged and in serious relationships have met someone out of town in various ways. So, maybe try the out of towners pool. Chicago men are non commital.
Smile moon said…
sorry p.d., i have more… now as for the story w/ vijay uncle’s wife, are you saying that we should lie? personally, i enjoy cooking only when i have someone to cook/eat with, but should i pretend that i’m martha stewart-ish for the sake of being more attractive to a potential guy? should a guy that hates bollywood movies feign interest in them for the sake of scoring points with me? b/c no unlove to auntie, but she said the right things that uncle wanted to hear & in the long-term it all worked out that they were the right partners for each other. i do not think anyone would or should advocate being disingenuous or unauthentic to snag someone.
hmm… i just saw vijay uncle’s recent post… yes, there are far more desi girls looking & “ready” than desi guys & this will always be the case. i just think it is so unfortunate that if we simply reciprocate interest (by being nice and engaging in a conversation) that somehow we are perceived as “desperate” and all this supposed magic & mystery is gone.
if that’s the case, it almost sounds like our only option is to be near-b!tchy, aloof and seemingly uninterested to have more “mystery,” allure and appeal. ladies, vj uncle is right though & whether it’s right or wrong, a good majority of guys operate this way – far too many guys are simply approaching us & talking us to see if we’d be interested at all & some to see how far they can get with us. once we express any interest back, a lot of them are simply in “Ne-eeext!” mode. So, to this, I have to say that ladies, just be mindful of your time & if the guy seems like the playerish, saying all the right things-type, definitely keep your guard up.
PDiddy said…
I think everyone made valid points here. I have to concede that VJ Uncle is correct that too many girls come off as desparate and that really kills it. And I also just learned why my expectation is always so dramatically off from the girls I meet.
Smilemoon fix your d-bag radar. Its not that complicated. D-bags will try to maximize the usage of time leveraging facebook, texts, emotional tricks… If the guy isn’t giving you material time as part of his pursuit, friend-zone him immediately and tell him and tell his friends publically. “Oh we are just friends – I do not see him that way…”
span style=”background:#FFFF00″>And if possible engage in conversations with multiple guys at once. Open the floor if you are in a public setting. People roll in crews in Chicago – talk to his friend too even if you do not like him at all.
And the pool of people getting married that you are looking at, really are the leftovers. The majority of my friends that are married met when they were younger in undergrad, their first job, maybe family friends… The subset that does happy hour at the most ‘scene’ place and hits Social 25 every Saturday after 3 am is very different from the people I am referencing in terms of demographics. But the underlying principles are the same.
span style=”background:#FFFF00″>The girls I have chased the most are the girls that have other guys chasing them. Hands down no questions. If a girl is totally single – a guy is likely to sit on the option. This is the mystery, magic etc… component…
And I am not advocating lying that is unethical. I am advocating representing yourself intelligently. e.g. If a guy ask you if you’re single – you do not need to respond with, “Yeah I am really totally single…”. You do not know how many times in this city you hear something like that. How about saying, “I am looking for something serious and keeping my options open” and make sure you smirk a bit…
And let me defend Chicago men a bit. We are the most committal of any big city in this country. You really want your universe rocked, date guys in New York City – you may never recover.
And smilemoon do not be jaded. Your selling yourself short if your skeptical and bottled up. What I am saying is bring your A-game and beat the d-bag and his own d-baggery. Refer to VJ Uncle’s point on self-esteem and self-respect.
Smile moon said…
I do not see how being mindful with my time makes me jaded, skeptical or bottled up; it makes me wise enough to know that only a very unwise person does the same thing over & over again expecting different results.
Also, I think saying that Chicago guys are the most committal in any big city is really relative and far from any kind of hard fact. I have been to and lived in enough major cities & I have never been more in awe of the fact that Chicago guys have unlimited options in this massive desi community & yet no one can seem to get it together. I have more coupled and married friends in NY/NJ (& not just those who met in undergrad but who met well after & are continuing to meet each other) – actually all over the East Coast – than I do here.
PDiddy said…
Smilemoon – Referring to the specific comment about minding your time and keeping you guard up, I think its really bad advice from a decent guy’s perspective. It can really confuse us.
I went to dinner recently with a very nice woman. She had her guard up which as a guy seemed like she was dull, emotionally available and blatantly not interested. I left right after dinner and did not think about it twice. Until I realized maybe she had her guard up and I tried to address my mistake. Unfortunately most guys even the real good ones can get confused very quickly.
Stay proactive and pursue the options you want. I would advise to not worry about what ‘that guy’ will do to you and focus on what you’re going to do to him.
About Chicago versus NYC. To each their own. Though I am comparing river north + gold coast to manhattan (anything south of midtown). And I know 100s of guys in both scenes and I know what they are doing and thinking. But I will leave it at that.
Anonymous said…
Well I read the blog for the very first time and I am very much disappointed. A woman who is 30-years old is behaving as if she is in her teens. Can we please “grow up”? There are no rules or games when you meet someone and are interested in the person, unless, of course your ultimate goal is to get in bed. Quite frankly we live in world today where it is only flesh that matters when we say we are interested, interested from what perspective? In order for two human beings to spend this beautiful life happily, personality plays lot more importance. And if you ever give personality importance, then there are no games or rules, it is purely based on good soul searching, as opposed to hot looking body. Your blog is geared more towards sexually oriented human beings who are only looking to get laid, but not appreciate or admire our Eastern values. The blogger who wrote a guy called after two days is the most egoist person I have come across. Women like her who are so self centered makes guys look bad or turn them into some thing else. Did she even think about a minute that he might have had some family emergency, professional crisis, etc. Nope. Nada. Nothing. It was only about me and me and me. Good for the dude before he was burnt. When it comes to rights women jump up and down and say they are equal to men or feminist organization will say they are far superior but when it comes to dating they want guys to make the first move, call them first, ask them out first, pay for the drinks, dinner, etc. What a double standard?
Sorry have to rush but could write endlessly on this topic, unfortunately to differing views.
Smile moon said…
Hi most-recent Anonymous, I am not here to please everybody & have no expectation that I would; reading is voluntary & so is whether you choose never to read again. Regardless, I appreciate your sentiments (I think it’s funny b/c Indian girls are always accused of being “bitter/jaded” but it seems like quite a few desi guys have a whole lot of angst), because whether I agree with your opinion of my blog or not (I do not), the goal of my blog (to start a conversation around this whole convoluted process of “finding the one”) is happening. & although you are simply an anonymous no one in my book & I certainly do not need to explain myself to you, I will clarify some things for you…
I am not quite sure what part of my blog you interpreted to be “geared more towards sexually oriented human beings who are only looking to get laid, but not appreciate or admire our Eastern values” (& perhaps you did not read my blog about “Sometimes I wish I was in the motherland”), but that’s the beauty of interpretation – to each their own. However, at the end of the day, you do not know me nor do you know my values or those of other people who are commenting.
At the end of the day, we’re all a product of our experiences & the phone vs. text thing is one of mine. I am far from being a writer, but if I was one, I’d be thrilled that something as simple as that one little step in the dating process got so many people reading & riled up. Again, it sounds like you only read my most recent post & not other posts in my blog, because I for one have never “jumped up & down” saying that men are equal to women. Although I think in the professional world, men & women should be equal, I certainly do not have that expectation or desire in relationships.
You sound like a very idealistic person (I am one myself), but no matter how idealistic we are, we have to participate in the world as it is and that includes the current process of dating here in America and with our generation. We would all prefer zero games & no rules, but that’s not the reality we live in. Anyway, thank you for writing & I do hope to hear from you again.
Anonymous said…
Smilemoon, I think your readers are getting confused as to what they are reading…people, this is a blog, not a message board. A blog supposed to be ideas and thoughts of an indivdual and then comment on it (briefly). This has obviously turned into a message board (maybe this is what you meant to start in the first place)?
Smile moon said…
Thanks for writing and I hear what you’re saying. Honestly though, I had and have zero expectations on what this blog is supposed to be like, & I never even read a blog before starting this one. People – including myself – have a lot to say, and as long as some people have the patience to read it all, it works for me. Honestly, as far as I see it, it’s just more content for future blog postings 🙂
Anonymous said…
Pdiddy, What are your thoughts and experiences of the girls in Chicago compared to other cities? I am finding that the 30-something crowd puts immense of pressure on “meeting the one” and isnt as relaxed as the crowd from my home city. Most of my female friends in Chicago continue to tell me their laundry list of what they are looking for AND are very upfront in stating it with their friends (age, height, staus, education, whether he like bollywood movies or not?). What ever happened to keeping it general and not be so specific? Maybe there can be a connection without this enormous list of likes and dislikes.
Anonymous said…
Interesting read. I am married and in my 30s and thought I would offer a different perspective. I think the older we are when we meet our mate, the greater expectations we have of who they ‘should be’ – in part because we ourselves have had so much time to grow and learn. This, however, proves to be a stumbling block for a lot of my girlfriends. In their quest for the perfect mate, they place too much importance on the ‘unimportant’ (texts vs phone calls, 1 day wait vs 3 day wait, overthinking simple things, etc) & in the process may lose a wonderful potential mate. Yes, in the short term these are things which may not be your ideal approach to starting a relationship, but nobody’s perfect and its irrelevant long term anyway. If you end up married 3 years later, what difference does it make whether he texted you or called you first?
Anonymous said…
To anonymous who posted a reply on January 14, 2010 9:29 AM – the one thing I have learned with experience, friend’s stories, movies, books etc… is that there is no family emergency, professional crisis or anything that will keep a man away from a woman if he is really interested.  Too often women make excuses for men and their poor behaviour. If he is “just not that into you” then move on. Many times you were “just not that into him” (whoever he was) now it’s your turn.
Smilemoon – although I don’t agree with making excuses for men I must say that at your age you should not be going through half the things you are going through. Now please don’t take this harshly. I have met you many times before and think that you are a lovely woman. I am in my 20’s and have yet to have a guy not call me after I gave him my number. The problems you are experiencing in my opinion has everything to do with the way you are presenting yourself with men. I don’t know you well enough to judge what you are doing wrong or right, but something has got to change. Maybe take a break from dating (a 2 month break or so..) and really think about what you want and what is important”?
It seems as though women from Chicago have these superficial standards. If a guy is 5’7 for instance (a little shorter than your ideal man) please give him a chance. If he earns less than $150k it does not make him a loser.
I know meeting your potential mate is not easy. But presenting yourself with confidence…true confidence will make all the difference.
Chi-Guy said…
I would like to add my perspective to this interesting blog. I am 33 year old male living in Chicago for the last 2 and half years. During this time, I have dated a number of girls in this city. I am still friends with all of them and they are still a part of my life in some way or another. I would like to say that I have given the same respectful treatment to each and every girl I went out with. For example, once I get a girls number, I call her back and set up a time to meet. The number of days does not really matter here, so as long as its not 2 weeks later. So consistency is the key here.
Yes, there have been cases where I did facebook a girl, BUT she responded! (every time). In a fast paced city and living a fast paced life, we dont always have right opportunity to get a girls number. And sometimes the girl actually feels awkward giving it out, in front of friends, co-workers, etc. FB is a tool, so I use it!! It has worked out very well for me. FB msgs are an excellent idea so as long as it eventually leads to phone conversation and later a date..etc. One thing I would like to add, guys, please dont abuse the FB as an easy way to getting in contact with the girl you have had little or no communication with. Most girls are turned off by this. If you have met the girl, talked to her (even for 5 min), then it is perfectly ok for FB her.
IMO, In the world of dating there ARE rules, but only the ethical and moral ones, right? Be polite, use common sense, act like a gentleman, treat her like a lady, etc. Other than that, its up to you to figure out what works and what doesnt. Also, this is very important, its so simple yet often times we forget..always make her laugh..this is the easiest way to break the ice, and get comfortable. I have saved many bad dates by just making the girl laugh.
As for Pdiddy, i agree with you about the process of disarming the DB. But you are too logical about this..fending off a DB isnt hard, but dont be a brat about it either. Girls, why waste time with a DB when you could be spending your meeting the real men..too often these women are actually attracted to the DB. Of course she is, hes the only one hitting on you. If you want to find a real guy, look in the background, there are plenty of men out there. BTW, is there a female version of a DB? HAHA JK..
Smile moon said…
To Anonymous who posted on January 14, 2010 8:18 PM, thanks for writing and you sound quite lovely as well.
Now as for Chi-Guy, thank you for your thoughtful & totally on point post. I feel like (and please correct me if I am wrong) that what you are saying about treating girls boils down for you & should for most (guys & girls alike), is the Golden Rule (no one needs me to say it but I will :-P): DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE TO YOU. I mean, who doesn’t like to laugh or be treated well? It’s all pretty basic stuff!
& YES, it really is about consistency at the end of the day and not necessarily the mode of communication. We all have our preferences though when it comes to that (& so many other things) and I do not think that’s a bad thing; I do think though that in a pleasant way and when a real connection has been made, those things can and should be communicated.
Honestly, I do not have a strict timeline on when someone should reach out to me (like “Day 2 and Bump You!”); however, I have definitely experienced when a guy is majorly into me and honestly, he doesn’t let a lot of time go by, b/c all that time is time that someone else could be making the move. Whether it’s me or someone else, I have seen guys get very frazzled at that possibility & when they ARE that into you, they try to avoid you forgetting about them at all costs.
Anonymous said…
Smile Moon
— anon 4 here. Interesting reply. thanks. A quote from your blog states “Then, within the next day or two (this is not a hard & fast #, but do not let a week go by), CALL HER. If I could have underlined that for even more emphasis, I would have! Per my recent “E-communicating rules.” Maybe you were a little heated when posting your advice to the world but its pretty clear … and I feel that if someone were to begin e-flirting with you after meeting you, you would give off a very stand-off impression that might lead to a bad impression, and something a guy will easily be turned off and look the other way. I have seen it, experienced it, and personally, think its a huge negative. I do feel if someone were to call you in 1-2 days and you honestly had an interest in the guy you would fall head over heals and put your full on emotion into it. I do not know, its just the way it seems in your tone and way you write the blog. Not a good idea honey.
my rule about dating. It should be all natural. Nothing should feel like rules or restrictions. The second a girl mentions “It’ll take me a month to open up to you, per my rules” I will pack up my bags, or I will go and pick myself up to somewhere else. That is not natural. I have been in several relationships, one or two that I was serious about marrying but then of course, Indian parents are the worst on this planet about being open minded. I will just leave it at that.
I do bid you good luck to your ventures, but for honest to goodness, lay off the rules. Try that once, and see where it takes you.
P.s. to the anon who posted Chicago guys are noncommittal. Hahaha, that’s a farse. Try out of towners” Please, try shadi.com, thanks. Sorry that ticked a nerve. Done.
Smile moon said…
anon 4 honey, hi again. you forgot the “Now, if you DO get her # & you really ARE interested…” part before that quote. i assure you that i did not write my original blog when i was heated and i’m still not heated now. i am also not saying “just kidding!” to what i wrote; we can all try something different in an effort to get different results & that is still my recommendation to guys when they are really interested. it’s simply something to try. if you got a good vibe that first night & she was sending you what you felt were clear signals, i still recommend a call when you have her # & IF you are REALLY interested. if you speak with her, that’s awesome & if you never hear from her again, things at least become crystal clear.
i think people are confusing me for anon1, but i never said that i have a cut off after a certain # of days (yes, i did make a recommendation on when i think guys should call – see above paragraph), and after this comment, i will stop re-explaining, but again (& again & again) i personally do NOT like to get to know people via text, BBM or Facebook.
i do not mind an initial text flirt or two (no, two is not a “cut-off” – it’s an expression); i e-flirt fight back, but if that’s all that the guy continues, i will lose interest. & you are absolutely right, if a guy that i was really interested in (like the last guy i seriously dated) called me the next day or two, i would be thrilled. fall head over heels? sorry, but one phone call is not all it takes for that.
as for rules & laying off of them, i’m not sure which rules of mine you are talking about. the FB one…? the one about not wanting to be a guy’s facebook friend for a certain time frame (however long it takes to get to know each other “naturally”)? that rule? i’m sorry, but if any guy in his 30’s cares that he is not my FB friend after meeting me, i’m concerned right there. & i’m even more sorry that i prefer to ask a person where they went to school, have they recently traveled, fave books/movies versus reading everything about them in 10 minutes, b/c i’m apparently one of the few people who prefers conversations that begin in “so tell me about” rather than “i read that…”
Anonymous said…
I know Smiling moon and she is a fabulous woman. She is just trying to document the indian dating experience from her perspective. If someone has issues they should not project it onto anyone here. Be kind and respectful people!
Anonymous said…
I assume from the long posts that you neither have a job nor gym membership. This probably explains why noone has committed to you. Tick tock… there goes the marriage clock.
Anonymous said…
If my thoughts have already been expressed by someone above, I apologize cause they are just so long, I did not have time to read them all. I barely got through the long post.
If I do not call a guy back, that means I am not interested enough in the guy to call him back. I assume it works the same way with the guys. Fine by me since I do the same.
I do not mind if a guy calls me 2 weeks later cause that means he has a life. If I fail to call within a few days, that means I have a life and have been preoccupied with other matters. Now, if this frequency of communication is not sufficient for you, then it is an issue that you should take up with the guy (which you are doing via this recent blog post).
I think texting and email is fine as well. It’s a form of communication and all that matters is your interaction with each other in person.
If you are waiting for the guy to call, my suggestion is take up a hobby. Perhaps read a book or take up stamp collecting.
without defnition said…
I am surprised at the amount of animosity I have read on this page! Despite the fact that I have had a great time reading certain comments and taking mental notes, some of you have been pretty insightful. I’m just surprised at the amount of negative feedback. I know this has been mentioned before but this is a blog, if Smile moon is anything like me (sorry if you’re not) she uses her blog to keep track of thoughts/ideas/feelings/happenings; this means that things sometimes sound like we’re bitter/jaded…but it’s really just our honest internal reaction to our reality. Anyone who reads my blog would be surprised at how bitter and scared I can sound at times, especially when it’s someone who knows me. But the reality is I use my blog almost as my journal/log and as a way to share feelings with someone who possibly is in a similar situation, so I take it to be my moment to let it ALL out! It’s one thing to be on the other side of the story, but there’s no need to be harsh when sharing your side.
Back to the topic at hand: As someone in a long time relationship my feelings about the situations are pretty close to what our married responder said…if he’s the right guy, who cares when he called?! But in a lot of ways I do remember what it’s like to be in the dating world, and on the off chance I’m back in it if this doesn’t work out (but I hope it does!) I’m sure I’m going to be feeling a lot of the things Smile Moon and her single female friends are feeling! I mean e-only communication is pretty LAME, especially once you’ve somewhat established that you’re interested in one another. The other thing I would like to stress is a lot of girls really just want a guy strong enough to pursue them, so guys if a girl actually gets up the guts to show you she wants you to…I suggest that you should!
So I guess keep your negativity to a minimum and just be clear so we ladies know what it is we’re doing wrong from a guys’ perspective! Your resolutions sound GREAT smile moon and I hope they work out for you :o)
Anonymous said…
If you call, then it shows that you have more confidence than if you email or txt.  Smilemoon, I have a question for you…why do girls give out there numbers and then do not call back if left a message? If it was to get rid of the guy, then girls should say they’re are not interested or something to that effect where the guy know’s she’s not interested so he cannot expect a call back.  If she changes her mind or flakes out then she most likely will remain single.
ash said…
Great post and great comments… all ringing true. I do agree with the “not just texting” rule – we’re in an e-age, so yes, FB and texting are part of the communication repertoire… but seriously, can they be the only ones if you’re really getting to know the other person? Don’t you want to hear their voice, or see them when you talk to them? Heck, consider your at-work scenarios (since most people these days are more careful about their work communications than personal ones) – in spite of the technology and global nature of all businesses, hasn’t it always been easier to work with people you’ve met and talked to at some point? How many times have misunderstandings resulted from incorrectly interpreted emails, that could have been avoided if you just picked up the phone to call that sensitive colleague? I think it’s the same in dating relationships IMHO… voice and vision just add the added dimensions to texted/emailed thoughts. Just my 2 cents…
Sunny said…
I would not recommend brushing a guy off and telling him you would see him later just so you’re not investing too much time in one guy. If you’re having a good conversation, you should continue having that conversation unless you’re really needed by your friend. Depending on that guy’s personality he might just not approach you again after the brush off. He might take that brush off as a sign that you’re not interested in him.
Anonymous said…
I just want to say that some of the negative feedback on here seems to be out of pure ignorance and classic Indian judgment. Any female that has been in Smilemoon’s shoes can relate and she has been brave enough to put herself on the line to encourage this discussion that is so desperately needed in our community. It’s just classic how people interpret her blog in whatever way that’s already in line with their predetermined point of view. I am shocked at the “something is wrong with you Smilemoon” and similar hating comments. Yet, it’s nice for this to be brought out into the light so people can learn what type of feedback we get daily as unmarried Indian females in our community despite our struggles to marry intelligently in these dysfunctional times. Smilemoon, you’ve shown a lot of character in managing this feedback and I am happy to see you standing tall for so many of us who feel the same.
AD said…
What is your take on, say, a girl asking a guy for his number?
I am actually a fan of exchanging numbers. For the longest time, I’d get someone’s number, and when I called later in the week, she would not answer because she did not know who it was (one girl even later told me, she doesn’t answer because she did not remember who all she gave her number to that weekend).
There is nothing more frustrating than to call someone and say, “Hi, it’s AD” and to hear back, “Who?” Exchanging numbers means my name shows up on her phone (and gives me the chance to leave some identifying information). It also is a signal from me – “Hey, i’m interested enough to leave you my number too, so you should feel free to call it.” Granted, there are some women who are oblivious to that, but the one’s that get it, get it because they possess that kind of insight that I love for a woman to have.
That being said, I have noticed a trend in a few articles in your blog – you accede to cultural stereotypes about how men and women should relate. Guys calling girls, guys paying for dates, guys should initiate contact on Shaadi.com, etc…
We do not live in Jane Austen’s world anymore – most women, including Indian women, are more sexually liberated than ever, are capable of (and demand the right to) deciding what they want out of a relationship, have personal ambitions of education and success, etc. Yet despite demanding equality on so many fronts, they still expect courtship to be male-driven, without seriously considering if that’s still a reasonable expectation.
I strongly believe that guys are genuinely excited by the prospect of more independent, driven, women (most guys want a girl who knows what she is doing in bed, for example). They see her go get her dream education and dream job, they see her carve her own niche in the American dream, and then, for some stupefying-ly opaque reason, sit around and wait for Mr. Right to show up.
Yes, what I am saying is that despite being ‘ultra-modern’ (even with a family that would accept non-Indian spouses), perhaps you’re not being pro-active enough? Kudos to your sibling for getting you a paid Shaadi.com account. As an economist, I would argue that monetary investment is a non-trivial indicator of “seriousness.”
Get out there, give a guy your phone number, and get his number, call HIM. If he’s not mentally mature enough to handle a woman who knows what she wants and is willing to work to get it, he’s not right for you anyway.
Best,
AD