"Would you be willing to learn Gujarati?"

2011 note – like I have said about other older posts, this was authentic me and how I felt at that time.  I cannot say that my reaction would be any different now (I still would not respond very well to someone asking this at a first meeting – or prior to it – regardless of whether it’s online or in person), but again, I feel like a completely different person one year later.
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I met up with a girlfriend of mine for coffee the other day, and she told me about a recent correspondence she had with someone (a supposed “Serious Looker”) that went something like this… after seeing each other’s profiles, my friend (who we’ll call “G” for girl) and this guy (“B””) were mutually interested in each other and there was a common friend (“F”) who was helping to facilitate the connection.  B passes an e-mail along to F to make an inquiry to G… “Would you be willing to learn Gujarati?”  When she told me this, I lol’d and said “Omg, we need to go non-desi.”

I said that not because I have any un-love for my desi people (as I have said before in my “Interracial Dating” post, I heart desi everything and ideally still want to be with a desi guy), but because the whole idea of whether she would learn Gujarati as an up front deal breaker was just absurd to me.  I honestly understand rejecting someone for height or age – two non-changeable factors – more than I do something like that… something someone could or would learn if they felt so compelled to later down the road.  Like I said in my Interracial Dating and Check Mark Criteria posts, too many of us are looking for exact replicas of ourselves on all kinds of things like “dietary preference, secondary language spoken, etc.” that we eliminate people as potential choices before even having an opportunity to know anything of real substance or value about them – like their personality or character.  Eats non-veg?  See you!  Non-Brahmin/Gujarati/Punjabi/etc?  It’s been real!
The reason I always encourage everyone to explore beyond just-desi is because of this desi desire to somehow perfectly blend arranged marriages of back in the day (when that vast choice of thousands of girls/guys matching up to your criteria doesn’t exist) to present day dating, falling in love, etc.  We all also have so much pride in our own little sub-cultures that simply being “Indian” is often not enough.  Would my friend have learned Gujarati… would he have learned Hindi…?  Most likely yes, down the road, when the two of them actually knew, valued and loved each other enough to learn/accommodate/blend what was important to the other.
I always refer to the one and only non-desi guy that I dated (he was white) and how he was essentially more Indian than most of the other actually-Indian guys I dated.  He knew I was obsessed with Bollywood (and Shahrukh Khan), so without my having to ask, he would say “I know you want to watch something with your real boyfriend, SRK… which of his 50 DVDs, do you want to watch tonight?”  He would insist on going to Indian buffets (in spite of how much he suffered afterwards) so he could learn more about the food… and he even had me e-mail him random Hindi phrases (and was researching Rosetta Stone on his own) because he knew how important it was to me.  I have heard some version of the above from countless interracial couples although it should not make sense that an Indian person could work better with someone with ZERO shared culture versus say an Indian-Gujarati and an Indian-Punjabi.  I understand that we are all attached to “how we were raised” our the culture/traditions of our parents, but in the grand scheme of LIFE a lot of these silly deal breaker things are completely irrelevant.
It is really unfortunate that people in their 30’s, who insist more than anything that they want to “settle down” are still so hell bent on writing potential partners off for such silly reasons.  Why not instead of asking will he/she be willing to learn/give up/do this or that… why not get to know that person, what they are all about, why certain things are important to them, etc…?   Why not AFTER a real connection has been established have an honest conversation about how much it would mean to you if your partner learned (for example, to speak Gujarati) and how you would be just as thrilled to start learning Hindi.
Personally, I am not willing to commit to doing anything for anyone I meet in an album, online or even after a few initial meetings.  However, most decent people are willing to learn, compromise and accommodate when there is enough invested and a reason to… for example, my girlfriends know that I am non-veg to my core; however, if I fell in love with someone who was strictly vegetarian, as long as he wasn’t making it a “deal breaker” or “making me” do anything, I would definitely and very happily give up my love for non-veg food.  True story.  I am writing this post so we all seriously consider what kinds of things we are writing people off for from the outset and how many potential great people we could be missing in the process.
One other thing to consider… I understand times have changed, yadda yadda, but how is it that our parents who ONLY had bio-data basics, usually a one-time in-person (possibly just a photo) meeting, no knowledge of their physical compatibility, and limited knowledge to that person’s personality (beyond what she showed while serving his family chai and he showed as he awkwardly sat there)… why were they able to make this whole thing work for the most part?  Were their relationships perfect…?  Are they all madly in love…?  No and nope, but a good majority of them made really great lives with each other… whether they ever had romance, fell in love or not, they LOVE each other and share a common purpose.   Why is it that now – after knowing and experiencing so much more – our expectations are out of this world, criteria are more out of control, deal breakers are rampant, divorces have become the norm and things seem to be on such an overall decline?
The answer is that our parents had to make the best of whatever (whoever) they were dealt with (essentially someone who seemed good on paper, but who really knew??); they managed and thrived due to their shared common purpose and did not have an option of making everything a deal breaker (for example, in Vijay Uncle’s case… woops, Auntie told a small white lie about enjoying to cook… would he maybe have not chosen her had he known up front?  Possibly, but no divorce happened once the truth came out that the cooking Auntie really enjoyed was that at restaurants :-P).
Well, that’s all from me on that…  I did, however, want to clarify one random unrelated thing regarding what I have heard on the blog and otherwise about my hurting my chances to meet someone by blogging.  One day, I really hope I can stop re-explaining this, but to anyone who is still confused, this blog is about GENERAL dating topics and is not Smile Moon’s dating diary (i.e. – “Yesterday, I went on a date with this guy who was so… and omg, he…!”).  It’s not that, & although some people have made the comparison, I am nothing like Carrie from SATC or any of the other dating bloggers out there.  Are certain dating behaviors being discussed?  Yes, but again they are in general (sorry to spell this out, but that means they are things that the community at large – guys and girls – are experiencing) and without the possibility of being linked to anyone.  If you think I am blogging about you or someone you know, you can rest assured that I am not (unless we dated prior to 2007); you just happen to fall into a general dating situation/category that I am talking about.
Again, I know I would not date someone so freaked out by “someone who blogs,” but for those of you who may have been interested but hesitated (which I can genuinely understand) b/c you were worried that our dating happenings will be blogged about, I can assure you that they will not.
K, I hope everyone is having a great week and stay tuned for Bela Gandhi, “The Chicago Matchmaker” in my next posting.
Write soon,

ORIGINAL COMMENT THREAD:
Anonymous said… I do not think I agree with your point of view. I think if speaking Gujarati is really important to someone, then they SHOULD be upfront about it. Why spend the time & energy to build a relationship with someone, become emotionally attached, and possibly become physically involved, only to find out later that learning another language is just not that person’s cup of tea. Maybe its not even that the person isn’t willing to learn, but he/she just cannot. ie: learning a new lang is not something he/she is good at. Then what? You mentioned in previous posts that we all need to be more upfront about our intentions; well then why not be more upfront about what we want in the other person? Criteria that might seem silly to you (i.e. speaking a specific lang) might be really important to someone else and no one has a right to judge what criteria is or isn’t important. In the same way, criteria that is important to you (i.e. a guy’s height) might seem really silly and superficial to someone else. It doesn’t really matter whether that is a criteria that can change or not; all that matters is how important that criteria is to you and whether you are willing to risk the possibility that your Sig-O is not willing to or cannot make that specific change for you.
Anonymous said… awesome blog smilemoon. love your writing style. as for your posting, indians, even the ones born on american soil, find so many differences amongst their own people and reject someone on the get-go based on one stupid thing (language, caste, region, north/south etc). at the same time, they’ll go marry someone who is non-indian, non-hindu and claim they are more indian. That makes absolutely no sense. First and foremost, a non-indian guy/girl is probably trying to impress you when they take an interest in indian things. Are they more indian than an indian person? obviously not, and the true colors show after you actually settle down with them. They are after you more because of what you have to offer, attraction, good family, got a good head on your shoulder etc. I see number of inter-racial married couples, where the non-indian is doing nothing indian after a few years into their marriage.
Anonymous said… LOL. Gujus are in a league of their own. J/K!  this situation would not occur to this degree, if two desis actually met in person and were attracted to one another B4 they knew anything about each other. When two people meet and click, physical chemistry is squared away and then bigger things matter like views, personality, character…
Anonymous said… I like the idea of meeting non indians. Just explore everyone, you have nothing to loose. I am on match and I am meeting absolutely gorgeous and professional men. 🙂   Samosas are boring, bring on the cannoli!  JK
prat said… Great points buddy! You’re hitting all the topics that I had issues with when I was dating. Lucky for me I found someone amazing and I knew within a week she was for me!
Smile Moon said… to the first poster, height & age are not deal breakers for me by any means (i’ve been interested in people my height – i’m 5’4″ – as well as people far younger & older than me); i was simply saying that i can understand those far more than filtering people out from the outset based on something like “will you learn gujarati?” & if that is something someone really holds near & dear, then instead of putting it the way that guy did, a person should state “my language & culture are very important to me. i am looking for someone to appreciate & embrace mine as i would do for theirs.” i’m sure my friend would have talked to that guy had he put it that way versus coming across the way he did.
as for no one having a right to judge anyone’s criteria, my passing judgment is not saying that one scenario is good/bad or that my view is “better.” similar to vijay uncle, i’m trying to shed some light on the BIG PICTURE issue our generation is facing – the inability to get it together on the relationship front. everyone – including you – judges & i’m simply trying to challenge some people who might not hold certain criteria as dearly as you to broaden their horizons.
as for the second commenter, i completely agree that we should not feel like we have more in common with someone with whom – other than being “American” – we have zero shared culture, values, upbringing. however, when it comes to interracial couples, there will definitely be scenarios that you described, but i’m talking about interracial couples who’ve been married for 5, 10, 20 years (in my community back home & in our generation of “kids,” every third person has married non-indian & these couples are very happy).
now if that non-desi person managed to simply put on a show (a darned good one) for that long in order to impress/keep their partner, then so be it. whether it be “indian-ness” or a specific activity – cooking, hiking, watching sports, working out, etc. – these are things that often someone who is not into/interested in something will learn about or develop a taste for it b/c they are important to their partner who they care about.
i also personally think many relationships go south b/c after the initial beginnings, people stop worrying about “impressing” each other & become really passive in their efforts. in the great relationships that i know of, both partners are constantly trying to “impress”/wow each other & there is nothing wrong with that.
lastly, a few of the indian guys i’ve dated (& many that i know) are desi by name & not by nature… they know nada about the culture, language, history, values & most of them (w/ the help of their parents) spent their whole life rejecting desi culture. it’s 10X harder to convince someone like that of the things you value then it would be someone who is completely non-desi.
Anonymous said… We are talking semantics here. Fine, the dude phrased it wrong. But he did the absolute right thing — make his objective deal killers up front right from the beginning. Most people lie to themselves about what those are and say “no no im open minded, I want to get to know you for you” and invariably realize that they indeed, for example, need a Guju.
And by the way, 12:24 PM, I know you said JK but most non-Guju’s I know actually agree that Guju’s are the most close minded about this, in terms of the vast majority of Guju’s wanting someone who speaks and is Guju (nothing wrong with this at all in my mind).
1:10 PM – meeting great guys, but do you see potential with any of them? Sounds like classic Vijay Uncle adventure dating here – having fun, meeting good looking people, love life not going anywhere since you’re not meeting anyone of potential but feels fun and nice. I may be wrong but what is there to be happy about in terms of just meeting bunches of nice single people?
Anonymous said… i’m not sure i completely agree with “lastly, a few of the “indian” guys i’ve dated (& many that i know) are desi by name & not by nature… they know nada about the culture, language, history, values”. i think a desi guy like that still will understand you on levels that a non-desi would not. not saying that a non-desi guy cannot have genuine interest in your interests for life but less common than you make it sound. what’s your take on an ABCD girl marrying a FOB boy? how come that doesn’t fly?
HappyFeet said… I think this is the major problem with dating over the internet. It’s so easy to metaphorically (although with some dating sites literally) check off exactly what you want from the other person. Of course for a few lucky people it does work and you find the perfect person, but for most people we end up wasting a ton of time (not to mention rejecting great people). To put this into perspective…if you were initially introduced to someone in person would you really have the guts to ask within the first couple questions ‘would you go vegetarian for me?’. I doubt it, so why should online dating be any different. I understand it may be convenient or save time to put it out there, but I feel you are really doing yourself a disservice.
My recommendation: Get to know someone initially based on character traits, and then move from there. It may surprise you, but a lot of people are willing to compromise given the correct relationship.
Benz said… Brava benz!! I heart this posting.. and you 🙂
Vijay Mehta M.D. said…  Yes, I love everything Gujarati!!!
What if the guy you are exploring asks, are you willing to learn Gujarati? How would you react if you were asked such a question. As I read the discussion on smilemoon’s blog I had my own reaction.
“A girlfriend of mine told me about a recent correspondence she had with someone (a supposed “Serious Looker”) that went something like this… after seeing each other’s profiles, the boy passes an e-mail along through a common friend to make an inquiry to girl “Would you be willing to learn Gujarati?” When she told me this, I lol’d and said “Omg, we need to go non-desi.”
Me: Oh my God, I wish your friend had come to the coolest uncle and she would have gotten a totally different response. I would have asked her to learn few most commonly used ‘f’ words in Gujarati. Put a smile on her face and talk to the boy directly and say something like this, “saala gadheda tu su samaje chhe? Are murakh, not only I would love to learn Gujarati but I will learn how to cook dhokla and fafda. I would love thepla and khakhra. I would learn garaba and Rasada! If I am going to mother some Guju children I am sure going to be prepared for it!”
Frankly, I may not ask the exact same question but I think it is important for the guy to figure out if the woman is going to fit in the context of large family, his grand parents and uncle and cousins in India. Indian marriage is lot more a marriage of families. Her ability to feel the part of Gujarati tradition is probably more important than the height and the age. And of course he should also embrace her tradition and language with the same degree of openness.
Even if I said this jokingly this does illustrate as to how a mundane issue becomes a big deal in communication between to serious prospects.
Let me explain. There are some of you who are looking for your own kind (twin matching) Telugu to Telugu. For those a question like this should raise the same response that smile moon had. Which was something like this, “she would learn Gujarati as an up front deal breaker was just absurd to me. I honestly understand rejecting someone for height or age – two non-changeable factors – more than I do something like that.”
But the vast majority of you after achieving the age of maturity have told me that you are open to any one Indian and Hindu. Now, if you are in this category you should take a different approach.
Suppose you are a Punjabi and are exploring a Gujarati prospect, get a sense of excitement that you will now enjoy two distinct cuisines, languages (you can now use slang words of two languages) participate in fun celebration of two states of India.
If you get in this mode you will see the difference as an asset – an opportunity to learn something different. But instead if you take the offence at the idea of learning other language than suddenly this will become a liability and your reaction will match that of smile moon. Remember in relationship there is lot more perception than reality. That is why two couple with identical challenges may end up with totally opposite results.
“Why not AFTER a real connection has been established have an honest conversation about how much it would mean to you if your partner learned (for example, to speak Gujarati) & how you would be just as thrilled to start learning Hindi.”
I smell potential danger of wasting time here. “real connection’ takes time. And if it was important to you that your wife could speak to your grandmother you should let the prospect know as early as possible. This goes in to one of my infra red questions.
“Personally, I am not willing to commit to doing anything for anyone I meet in an album, online or even after a few initial meetings.”
Well if you are going to marry someone basically you both have to understand that you are merging two independent lives. There will be hundreds of major and minor issues that will come up. The correct attitude should be, ‘I am open to do anything for everyone on your side be it you, your friends or your family as long as it does not require me to go against my core value.”
“I understand times have changed, yadda yadda”  Yes, times have changed big time. The biggest change in our generation and your generation is this; the women in my age were smart enough to not react to every little thing that bothered them. But they were persistent enough to prevail more often than not at the end. In a way they knew how to lose a battle but win the war!” Women in my generation initially did do a lot to make everyone on groom side to feel like she made her best efforts. With the new paradigm both sides have to do that. Marriage is essentially a state of mind on both sides to do whatever they can without losing their core value.
“I like the idea of meeting non-Indians.”
Of course I advise many of you to explore any possibility including non-Indian too. At the end of the day your goal is to find someone who meets your long term needs. The major hurdle I see is that most of the Desi to non Desi alliances take place if they initially met during college years. Once they get to late 20’s they simply do not believe to make a decision under time pressure. This could be the placebo (refer to my previous note) that may eat up your two to four years.
“I think a desi guy like that still will understand you on levels that a non-desi would not.”
I agree. Many non Desi’s have impressed me with the degree of enthusiasm they have shown, initially, whenever they date a desi. However over the years I have realized that only in a small minority of these non desis the excitement about Desi culture lasts lifetime.
In contrast those who are born desi even if they are like a coconut (brown outside and white inside) they understand if their spouse or children manifest too much indianness. Not only that, but with aging there is this phenomenon that a person turns more toward their religion and culture.
Disclaimer: Some of my love for Gujarati may be due to the fact that Gandhi, Sardar Patel, Modi and my self are all Gujarati!
Anonymous said… I’d be willing to learn hindi, but definitely not gujarati!
confused said… Question for all of you out there? How many of the Guju/Hindi/Tamil/whatever-speaking couples ACTUALLY speak that language to EACH OTHER?? I understand and speak Gujarati and am married to a Gujarati girl, but we speak ENGLISH to each other and ENGLISH to our parents. Since we visit India close to never how our partners fit in with them was a non-factor. All I can say is that Im so happy I got married several years ago because you all have some major issues. With Dating.
Anonymous said… Hey, at least 1:10PM is stealing a bunch of free dinners off of white dudes instead of indian guys. Let ’em have her!
Anonymous said… Seriously 9:16? Stealing a bunch of free dinners? More props to 1:10 for exploring all possibilities since the vast majority of her selection of desi guys sadly think and act like you do. By any chance, are you Gujarati”
Anonymous said… Nope but I would be willing to learn gujurati!
Anonymous said… My comment is no more offensive than “samosas are boring.”
Smile Moon said… Hi Uncle & everyone else, thanks for your posts… Uncle, I agree with “confused” about the language thing & it’s real relevance for us mostly-born-&-raised-in-America-speak-mostly-English-types. & how many people’s parents who live here – who, ok, sure they might prefer speaking Gujarati/Hindi/etc or get uber-impressed when someone does – would really be so bent out of shape over speaking English (a language they know very well)?
Also, I’d like to clarify that my girlfriend & I were so put off by this particular guy because 1) Speaking Gujarat is NOT a “core value” & 2) there’s a general phenomenon of born-&-raised-here desi men wanting a partner who will be very similar to their mothers or accommodate to their wishes without having that equal inclination to reciprocate. As we’ve all seen countless times, a lot of these guys casual-date a whole lot of desi girls here wasting a GINORMOUS amount of our collective time, only to then end up going to the motherland to find an essentially made-to-order-wife.
That whole thing that you mentioned about both sides needing to make that effort, that seems to be lost on a lot of people.
Anonymous said… Men who go to India usually do so after getting jerked around a lot by desi girls. Perhaps it is the girls who are driving them to do this, because of unrealistic expectations of a relationship.
Smile Moon said… Perhaps & I can definitely see that being the case in some instances. I am not even saying it’s wrong for desi guys to go to India; I just strongly encourage desi women (whom going to India @ any age is mostly a non-option) to definitely re-evaluate their criteria (& possibly, their impossible to meet standards), how long they are willing to wait for mr. dream desi guy, & what they can be doing differently overall when it comes to dating. The fact of the matter is that as desi guys rack up the years, their options continue to expand while the options for desi women (understandably) decline.
I also encourage everyone to evaluate the dating situations they get into & if they are not going anywhere (& will not be in spite of their best efforts), then to cut their losses & be on their merry way.
Anonymous said… I wish the indian american community was more diverse. I feel like 80% of the population is guju. Nice people, business savvy but very narrow-minded! Their food sucks too. Not sure where their pride comes from. Okay that was mean. I just had to say it!
Smile Moon said… I am North Indian so of course, I LO-OOOVE North Indian food (oh wow, now I am craving it – someone is going to a buffet tomorrow! :-P), but I grew up with a ton of Gujarati friends & I remember getting my serious grub on (& quite enjoying mango pulp served with everything! :-D), but to each their own.
However, I do agree that Gujaratis definitely do dominate in #s (you have to give them props for so many of them making it over here & being so tremendously successful), but for the small pool of us “non-Gujus” out there who would ideally like to date someone “like us” it is definitely a greater challenge. On that note, although I have never dated a Gujarati guy, if he was as wonderful & open-minded as my Gujarati girlfriends, I’d definitely be interested.
Lastly, for anyone offended by the above comment, pleeease let’s not make this a battle of the Indian sub-cultures. You will all then just prove my point about how special we are.
Thank you.
Anonymous said… Smilemoon – just wanted to respond to your post about you not commenting on people that you’ve dated (unless you dated them before 2007). That’s a bit strange. Is that year going to change as time goes on – meaning will you start writing about guys you dated in 2008 once next year hits? You have shared information about the white guy you dated, the coconut, etc. It’s a bit strange that you’re sharing details about guys that you’ve dated to the public (and I am a female, so definitely not one of the guys you’ve dated). If I were a guy, I’d definitely be cautious about dating you – not only because you might use something as a topic, but generally because I do not think that this blog portrays you in the best light. It makes you seem like you do not have anything else to do but to be bitter about guys.
Smile Moon said… to the last poster, thanks for your thoughts. just to clarify though, no, once 2011 strikes, i will not be moving the year to guys that i dated in 2008.  other than the white guy that i dated was in 2007 (i assure you he is not reading my blog) & the in-general coconuts, i have really only blogged about general topics, dating trends (i.e. – texting vs. calling) & my insights on those various topics in an effort to encourage other people to post their thoughts on them as well.
for people who know me well, they know i’m hyper-aware of everyone’s feelings & i’m the last person to go on a date (good or bad) or date someone (successfully or unsuccessfully) & then portray someone in a negative light. will there be guys who will choose not to date me nonetheless? sure, & i’m very okay with that, b/c if any guy is seriously interested, sees my blog for its big picture purpose, but still has concerns, i would hope that he would approach me so we could have a conversation about it.
as for me not having anything “to do but to be bitter about guys,” that’s your opinion & you (& anyone else who shares it) are welcome to have it just as there are people out there who find my blog to be the opposite of bitter.  i do find it interesting though that what i’m saying (which is far from “all men suck” or anything along those lines) is being interpreted as bitter.  however, i’m not going to waste any brain energy trying to figure that one out b/c i’m not blogging to please or impress anyone. at the end of the day, to each their own & as always, reading is optional.
one last thing though… to fellow single people who are so concerned and say that I am hurting my chance of meeting someone b/c of this blog, well, all of you do not have a blog, so what’s your excuse…?
phillykamarani said… you are a goddess of my own heart. I adore your writing style and have often written similar posts in my “sex and the city of brotherly love” blog. Thank you for your awesome comments regarding deal breakers…I am from a south indian brahmin family…have a great life and i’m spiritual…but OOPS i’m not vegetarian! i do not think it makes me ignorant because someone else believes it’s a sin to eat chicken…the fact of the matter is, i do not. but i do love ur posts and thank you so much for all the laughter I have experienced…your rebuttals are logical and fabulous. good luck with bela!
www.tantriclub.co.uk said… Hi, I read your blog with interest and I believe that there are a couple of issues here… More so than ever before, proactive singles have greater access to meet new people. They know what they want and are dating as many people as possible in search of their ‘perfect partner’. Whilst this accessibility is great, it can also promote a false sense of perception, in that we can pick and choose all of the characteristics that must be present in our prospective partner.
This can lead to situations like potentially good matches being overlooked, based on criteria, which should arguably come further down the list compared to attributes like compatability, attraction, common interests etc.  Additionally, often many ‘dates’ do not get a fair chance, so to elaborate – the success of the date is judged purely on physical attraction and, or casual conversation, without any real opportunity for an emotional connection to materialise.
Sadly, with these over inflated expectations, it is likely to take one even further away from their goal of meeting & settling down with someone.